Kight Radio - Post Dayton Updates

More updates from Kight Radio posted on 21 May 2012:

"We are back from a long trip to Dayton. We have the TYT Dual Band Mobile now (This was displayed at Dayton Hamvention) I will be taking pictures of it in the morning and then its going back to TYT in China. Thank you TYT for letting us have this to show at Dayton. (TYT was happy to supply the Dual band Mobile, Wouxun was not interested in having theirs on display ???)"

I'm not sure which specific model he is referring to when he says the "TYT Dual Band Mobile." I thought the TH-9000 was a single band radio. The TYT TH-9800 is supposed to be the quad band mobile. He mentions it below. I need to finish my post about the TH-9800. I spent a few minutes looking and didn't see the dual-band pictures on his site either.

I thought there might be some news from Ed about the Wouxun KG-UV920R - I was predicting that he would have a demo unit. Based on the current chatter (here and here), no response from Ed (to his credit he is usually really good about engaging with the on-line community), and comments like the above, maybe we should be looking at TYT or Vero for the amazing value in mobile rigs.

"We also had the New TYT Th-UVF9 4 watt HT. Ed and I both have one and testing it now. This will be available within a couple weeks. I will post detailed pictures of it on this site in the morning. I will also post the New Specs for the TYT mobile too on the catalog page. They added AM receive coverage for the Air Band. This F9 HT does have the dot matrix readout."

Air band. Cool. Dot matrix readout. Also cool. I don't see the pictures and specs on the catalog page. Maybe I need some glasses or more coffee.

"TYT DUAL BAND MOBILE expected to ship in October. This is the mobile to watch for ... its actually a Quad Band Mobile covering 10, 6, 144 and 440. The other Chinese mobiles are only 144 and 440. Those of you that have waited for the Wouxun mobile should wait for the TYT first before buying one."

Earlier in the month, Nate pointed out in the comments that there could be some photoshop action going on in the TYT TH-9800 Dual/Quad band - a Yaesu FT-8800R screen? It doesn't mean the radio is fake by any stretch as I can image the marketing designer grabbing something convenient to complete the image. At least there is hard date for availability - October.

I'll keep looking and see if he posts any additional information.

Chinese Radios - The Center Part II

A commenter on yesterday's post about which Chinese manufacturer is really making all these radios pointed me to this link at Kightradio. (He is the one offering the TYT TH-UV3 for sale.) There are multiple updates on the page:

03/19/12 "The TYT TH-UV3 Dual Band HT is on the way to me now. I will update everyone as soon as I receive them."

So he could have the TYT TH-UV3 any day now. We do live in interesting times.

02/20/2012 "Baofeng UVD-5R Dual Band 4 watt HT was just released for sale in China. This is a nice little Dual Band rig but as of now, the menuis only in Chinese. This is howthe first UV-3R started out and then they made the english menu later. I would like to note that this radio looks exactly like the TYT F8 Radios. In talking with TYT I found out this is a COPY and not a radio made by TYT and sold to Baofeng. TYT has a patent on the case so we will see what TYT does about this later. So if you buy one of these on the internet, BEWARE, its menu is ONLY IN CHINESE and hard to figure out. I have one to test and I am having the menu translated and I will update you later on this.

Dual Band mobiles are not anywhere close to being released. I would not look for them at Dayton this year. Maybe if we are lucky, a few months after Dayton but this is just my personal guess with info I hear in talking with the MFG's every few days."

We know that are now versions of the UV-5R that do Chinese only, Chinese & English, and English only. And he has been told that Baofeng is ripping off TYT's case. More interesting is his claim that the dual band mobiles (KG-UV920R anyone?) won't be available for a few more months.

No Date "We attended the Hong Kong Electronics Fair and the Canton Export Fair Oct 15,2011

We will be updating the site in a few days with all the New Goodies we found at the show. Lots of exciting things in the works so be sure to check back with us and get updated.

We are in China now so if you have any special radios you would like us to purchase for you, contact us and we will be glad to purchase for you.

Call 405-227-9980 (Our time is opposite the USA time so when its 11 am in the US, its 11 pm in China) Please call late evening your time to reach us.

We can get you the latest versions of Wouxun,TYT, Baofeng and others at Hong Kong Prices."

Pretty cool that he offers to ferry radios back from China. Shipping and wire transfers can make a good deal go bad very quickly.

11/11/2011 "Wouxun is going to raise the price effective now of the KG-UVD1p & UVD3 about $22.00 This is because of dealer requests to add 2.5 steps to those models. Its seems more like a move on Wouxun's part to increase the retail price like they have been wanting to do for sometime. They also increased the min wholesale order to 500 units. This is going to put the Wouxun HT's in a higher price class and TYT and others will have the advantage. Hong Kong will have a much lower price and attract more customers. As far as the Dual Band mobile, I would not look for it anytime soon and when it does come out, I am anxious to see the price. Wouxun is not aware of other companies working on Dual Band Radios because they pay little attention to their competition."

Build your brand and demand higher prices. It is the American way!

AnyTone Intellectual Property and TYT

Ed (Import Communications) passed along the following:

To Whom this may Concern:

Please be aware that our Company, Qixiang Electron Science & Technology Co., Ltd., is the manufacturer and designer of the industry leading AT-588 mobile transceiver. We are sending you this notice as where we wish to inform you that our intellectual property has been stolen by a competitive manufacturer from Quanzhou City, China, TYT Electronics Co., Ltd.. 

They sold worldwide a copy of our radio, which they called the TH9000.

Based on the evidence presented to the courts,  the Intermediate People's Court of Quanzhou City announced after trial on June 17,2013, the following verdict:

1) It was found where TYT illegally obtained the technical files of the Model AT-588 (single band mobile radio) from Qixiang and used this information to produce a copy and sold their copied model TH-9000 to the industry. 

2)TYT was ordered to stop the production and sales of the TH9000 

3) TYT was fined 4 million RMB ($650,000 USD) for its tort and illegal activity as damages to Qixiang.

The decision of the courts was fair and just, and brings another level of integrity to the radio manufacturing sector in China.

It  also reminds all professional radio manufacturers in China to the intellectual property of others and this decision reminds of them what they cannot do.

We remind all TYT resellers and users of the TYT Model  TH9000 about this court decision and advise all TYT customers or others to cease from advertising, selling, or supporting  the TH-9000 model transceiver. Qixiang Electron Science & Technology Co., Ltd., will protect its intellectual property and will prosecute to the fullest worldwide anyone found to sell the products in question.
Meanwhile, we hope our customers will support our original designed products, this will be lead us to stable and continued long-term business.
2013-07-19
----------Best regards,EchoQixiang Electron Science & Technology CO., Ltd.
Website: <http://www.qx-tele.com>www.qx-tele.com

Wow.  I wonder if this will have any impact to all the other "clones" we see. I suspect many of the clones are sold by the original manufacturer and re-branded, but there are probably others out there that are not. And will they start protecting the intellectual property of non-Chinese companies? That has long been a concern of taking tech to China to be built.

More Baofeng Version Notes from Nate

From Nate... he's compiled some information from the various links below. Corrections/additions are welcome.

Complete list of links:

General Radio Descriptions:
http://baofengtech.com/radios
Comparison Chart:
http://baofengtech.com/compare
FAQ (Myths and Facts)
http://baofengtech.com/faq
Firmware Guide:
http://baofengtech.com/firmwareguide

Also reference to:
http://www.brickolore.com/2014/06/baofengtech-charts.html

Radio's currently listed on BaofengTech (Plus some additions):


Generation Zero:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
UV-3R, 3R+ (UV-100, UV-100 MKII, UV-200, UV-200 MKII, UV-3R MKII, Vero Electronics UV-X4.
The improved Vero Electronics UV-X5 = TYT TH-UV3R probably belongs here too*).


First Generation:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
UV-5R, UV5R+, UV-5RA/X, UV-5RC/X, UV-5RE (and most re-branded clones such as the Ronson UV-8R, the Waccom WUV-5R . 409Shop models - UV5R[A-Q] ** belong here too. also if they have + or UU after the model number, it just means that the frequency range was extended by software on the UHF band from 400-470/480 to 400-520, not an improved firmware ).

Slightly better receiver and newer firmware:
UV-B5, UV-B6, UV-82 (=UV82L), UV-82X (=144/220 Mhz model), UV-82C, (And probably the F11, BFUV66 and BFUV89 belong here too).


Second Generation:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
GT-3, A-52, B-580T, BF-F8+ (Also BF-530I, BFE500S and maybe BF-F9+  ***).

Notes:

* Vero Electronics UV-X5 = TYT TH-UV3R probably has some small changes in the filter section, similar to what RadioMart\Martyn was trying to do with the TYT TH-UVF9 that probably became the TYT TH-UVF9D.
Ref1: http://www.worldwidedx.com/handitalkies/153179-tyt-th-uv3r-2m-440-also-does-220-a.html
Ref2: http://www.uv3r.com/
Ref3: http://www.brickolore.com/2012/06/tyt-th-uvf9-more-tri-band-info.html
Ref4: http://www.brickolore.com/2012/06/tyt-th-uvf9-story-so-far.html
Ref5: http://www.tyt888.com/en/Products/Detail.asp?ID=2068
** 409Shop models names UV5R[A-Q] might have added letters to indicate the color R/BLUE/CC 
*** Note the lack of [BAND] button on second gen radios that have the UV-5R form - the BF-F8+, the 409Shop's Baofeng BF-F9+ and possibly other clones that we will see in the future.

I hope this will put an end to the Baofeng/Pofung model variation confusion.

Updates from Kight Radio - TYT and Baofeng

Kight Radio updates from 05 May 2012:

"Great News - The TYT TH-UV3R is in stock and shipping. I have been using one for the past 2 weeks and I love it. The size is about the same size as the Baofend UV3 but construction is much stronger."

 "The New TH-UVF9 Dual Band HT (4 watts) will be available soon. I will have 2 of these to test within the next week and I will update everyone on this new radio. I have pictures posted on this site."

This is the first I've heard of the TH-UVF9. Here is the link to the listing. No price yet on this dual band, dual display 4 W unit. He does mention he will have one at Dayton.

"Baofeng UV5 - They report that the problems have been fixed and shipping the updated ones now. We will wait to test them and then release them to sell at that time. If ordering from other companies you might want to wait until they get rid of their old inventory before ordering."

Amazing how quickly they can respond with fixes. They are getting a lot of free testing from the hams that are early adopters.

"Just in case your wondering, the Baofeng UV5 looks like a TYT radio however it is not. TYT did not sell or mft the radios for them, They simply took TYT's case design and copied it. There have been some questions on who makes the TYT radios for them .... TYT is the MFG!"

I am beginning to think the cases are a core competency for China. They can make copies faster than anyone and in any color you like.

Nate's Open Letter to TYT

My post about the TYT TH-9800 got Nate thinking and the result is the following open letter from him to TYT.

If TYT will take an advice from me (Nate)... 

It is no secret that Chinese radio manufacturers like following the lead of other successful brands for a good reason, they sell.

The problem is that instead of bringing new ideas (or even good old proven ideas) they start playing with different packages and name labels which just add to the consumer's confusion, and doesn't generate more sales (writing "Hot 2013" in-front of last year's product doesn't really do anything).

I think TYT/Baofeng/others should "re-create" a very successful radio series Kenwood had in the 1990's, the Kenwood TM-642 / TM-742 / TM-842 / TM-942.

Today's technology should be able to cut down costs, and since TYT don't currently have any Dual band mobile radios, it wouldn't compete with other products they are already deeply invested in (which is probably why Kenwood stopped making them).

Creating a radio as a platform has many advantages, such as quick design phase, simple to manufacture, test, repair, and certify which saves the manufacturer money and lets the buyer get what they need (think how successful was the IBM compatible PC and how it shaped forever the computers we use today).

Radio as a platform means that the manufacturer will spend the time designing the radio itself, as a unit with a CPU, display, buttons, memory banks, software, speakers, RF, data and microphone jacks and expansion slots for modules , and than produce simple modules that will answer the demand from ham radio operators, and commercial entities world wide.

Modules: Each module should contain the specific RF parts for the band it is designed for such as Frequency generators, Mixers, Filters, and Power amplifiers.

There are at-least 9 Amateur bands that should be made: 10m, 6m, 4m, 2m, 1.25m, 70cm, 33cm 23cm and 13cm.

Some of these bands can be used for commercial needs as well, if the software allows locking the radio to specific memory channels, and of-course if there is a need for a different band, all they need to do is create the appropriate module.

I'm going to concentrate in the question: Why can Chinese manufacturers count on revenue from selling modular/platform radios to ham radio operators world-wide?

1. Both in the Americas (1.25m and 33cm) and Europe (4m) these old/new bands are gaining a lot of popularity, while there is very little equipment for these bands being sold today, whoever is going to fill up the gap is going to win this game.

2. A lot of hams around the world can enjoy the universal bands of 23cm and 13cm, that the only reason why these aren't popular is that there is virtually no radios for it in a decent price.

3. There are no new triple band radios being made today, and if you look in eBay for any of these old Kenwood triple band radios, you'll see they still bring a very pretty penny (a lot of money) even after 20 years!!!

4. It will be very hard for hams to resist buying one radio to get into one more band, if they have their traditional 2m/70cm in it too, for example 2m/1.25m/70cm in the US and 4m/2m/70cm in Europe, and new hams looking for their first radio would want to get one too.

5. Buying more than one: I think that if there will be such a wide availability of all these bands, some hams will buy a second or even a third radio. Some hams will buy them for redundancy, some because they are collectors (these hams will probably buy all the module options), also a lot of hams put these mobiles in their cars, and since these will have the ability to have unique bands (bands they can't access on the their base station) , they will want to get at-least one more for the home too, and let's not forget these repeater owners that will get them just to extend the capability of their multi-band repeaters. 

6. Increasing sales and Accessories: these radios will require tri-band antennas for different band options, duplexers, and triplexers, this will add the manufacturers more revenue.

7. Innovation sells: look how much time and effort consumers put down talking about crappy poorly designed radios, in blogs, and in forums, even non shows, if there was an option to buy a triple band radios, people would most definitely buy them.

Tytera and TYT

I've been using TYT more than Tytera, so I'm a head of the game. :

"Tytera announced plans this week to change the brand name on their line of two way radios from Tytera to TYT next month. According to an official spokesperson from Tytera, starting May 2016 the company will begin to replace the Tytera brand on their entire product line with the name TYT."

In fact, I never created a Tytera tag and have just been using TYT.

Via this post at Buy Two Way Radios

Baofeng UV-5R: New Baofeng Model

Chris (NH7QH) at Hawaii Radio Sales sent me the following about the new Baofeng UV-5R. (On a side note, Chris is now also selling ham equipment via eBay.)

"Just got this email - looks like it is a TYT TH-F8 - same marks and all mono band, already FCC approved since a TYT."

He also included a couple of pictures - see below. The styling looks more like the UV-3R +. Other obvious features are the charging connectors on the battery pack (so a drop in charger) and the keypad. I am not as familiar with the TYT radios, but it looks like Baofeng is willing to leverage the success of the UV-3R to build its brand by buying radios from multiple companies (Vero Telecom and now TYT). This model also more directly competes with the Wouxun. (I felt like the UV-3R was more of niche radio than a direct replacement for the Wouxun's.) These Chinese radios are keeping it interesting for sure. Maybe Baofeng needs to rebrand a mobile and steal the thunder from the much anticipated KG-UV920R.

Pricing on the TYT TH-F8 is around $50 to $75 on ebay. Here are the specs for the TH-F8.

Single band, dual display, dual standby	■  A/B band independent operation
■  128 groups channels storage	■  FM radio and 25 stations storage
■  Wide/Narrow Band(25kHz/12.5kHz)	■  0~9 grades VOX selectable
■  Chinese/English voice prompt	■  CTCSS/DCS and scanning
■  1750Hz tone	■  PTT & ANI ID
■  Priority transmit selectable	■  0~9 grades squelch level setting
■  LED display mode	■  Keypad beeper setting
■  Transmit over beeper	■  Dual watch/monitor
■  Receive saving function	■  Auto keypad lock
■  Power-on display	■  Battery power voltage
■  Power-on message	■  Repeater offset function
■  Channel name display and setting	■  Reapter shift direction
■  VFO step function	■  Shortcut menu operation mode
■  Emergency Alarm	■  DTMF encoder & decoder(optional)
■  8 groups scrambler(optional)	■  2/5 tone encoder & decoder(optional )
■  Remote skill/stun/activate(optional)	■  High/Low TX power selectable
■  Busy channel lock-out(BCLO)	■  Transmitter time-out timer(TOT)
■  Voice companding	■  Tri-color background light selectable
■  PC programmable	■  Wire clone

TYT MD-2017: Programming Cable Issue

Sounds like a small problem, but I like the open response and I'm sure they and TYT will take care of those affected:

"With our first batch of TYT MD-2017's, we had a few customers call complaining of issues programming the radio. After some back and forth, we identified the issue as being a poor solder within the radio connector on the programming cable. Customers with this issue were not able read their radios from the programming software. 

TYT has confirmed the issue, and are immediately working to correct the problem. We are told that all of our future shipments will have the updated cable, so if you order a radio or a cable from this point forward you won't have to worry about this issue. 

This issue affected a very small number of customers (less than 3%), so we appreciate TYT's willingness to make the fix a priority."

Chinese Radios - The Center?

The Baofeng UV-3R is a re-branded Vero Telecom UV-3R.

The Vero Telecom VR-2200 is a re-branded TYT TH-9000.

The Baofeng UV-5R (which I cannot find on the Baofeng site) is similar to the TYT TH-F8.

When the UV-3R came out, I thought VeroTelecom was going to be the actual manufacturer - if not the design house, too. The UV-3R was availible as a Baofeng UV-3R, Magiksun UV-3R, Comtex UV-3R, and a Zastone ZT-UV3R. Vero Telecom was going to be the source.

Now it appears that the VR-2200 is actually a TYT TH-9000. And the UV-5R looks like it has it origins in the TYT TH-F8.

Is TYT going to be the center of the ham radio world for China manufacturers?

Does ICOM buy Yaesu radios and re-brand them? Is Elecraft reselling Ten-Tec rigs? The game is different in China. Maybe they just like to keep us on our toes. I am going to need a map.

TYT TH-UV3R: Moleculo Review Tread

Review thread here.

moleculo This TYT TH-UV3r 2m/440 is rapidly becoming one of my favorite little HT's . It really is a nice 2 watt radio #hamrMon, Jun 04 16:23:09 from TweetDeck

moleculo The TYT UV3r and Baofeng UV-3r are completely different radios. The TYT is much more refined and has numbered buttons #hamrMon, Jun 04 16:32:55 from TweetDeck

moleculo Just started my review of the fantastic little TYT TH-UV3r 2m/440 micro HT: bit.ly/Lx3Urk #hamr (not to be confused with Baofeng)Tue, Jun 05 15:46:46 from TweetDeck

TYT TH-9800: Dual/Quad Band Mobile

I'm finally getting around to doing a real post about the TYT TH-9800.

First, I do not see it listed on the TYT website.

The KC2RA site posted some info about the TH-9800 when they did the review of Chinese mobiles.

Kight Radio does have it listed, but labels the radio as a dual band mobile. It hints at a surprise and suggests reviewing the spec sheet where the frequency ranges are 28.000 - 29.700, 50.000 - 54.000, 144.000 - 148.000, 430.000 - 450.000. Also, on the 25 MAY 2012 update from Kight Radio, they report the TH-9800 will also have "AM Reecieve on the Aircraft band."

Andrews Communications Systems has the TH-9800 listed on their site with an expected price of less than $499 AUD/$485 USD. Given a price in that ballpark and the quad band capabilities, this would not appear to be a direct competitor to the KG-UV920R. This picture on the Andrews site doesn't look anything like the others below.

This post on the TYT-USA Yahoo Group mentions a unit at Dayton. Martyn (K4TEC) gives a little more detail:

"Re the Quad Band mobile transceiver, this is still under development, a dummy rig was seen at Dayton, Sam (from TYT China) let one float around, this will be an exciting rig and a good price but it is not going to be available until very late in the year if at all this year."

From the 21 MAY 2012 update, Kight Radio also talks about a unit that they had, but it was the dual band. They do specifically mention that the TH-9800 should ship in October. Image from Kight Radio:

Earlier in the month, Nate pointed out in the comments that there could be some photoshop action going on in the TYT TH-9800 Dual/Quad band - a Yaesu FT-8800R screen? It doesn't mean the radio is fake by any stretch as I can image the marketing designer grabbing something convenient to complete the image.

For what might be the single band versions of these radios, there is already Type 90 acceptance by the FCC (ID: X24-MOBILE-V). Again back to the pictures, nothing matches so I don't know what to expect. This is the picture that is linked to the TH-9800VHF documents on the FCC site.

I've copied the features list from Sparky's blog here. He mentions a price of $375 - $450 USD and says it will be available "Winter 2012." I'm not sure of his source, so I am leaning towards Kight's price and date, since he talks about going to China and seeing the various manufacturers and sellers.

Features:

• Outstanding 0.2uV sensitivity across 10m/6m/2m/70cm bands

• Brilliant crossmodulation, intermodulation rejection and strong signal performance – similar to commercial radios!

• Commercial quality and commercial performance, too!

• 256 memory channels

• DTMF mic included!

• Digital FM broadcast band radio

• High/low output power levels

• Reverse frequency selection

• Dual (V/U) squelch set levels

• Dual repeater offsets selectable

• Multi-function scanning

• Repeater offset selectable

• Keypad lock function

• Channel name editing

• CTCSS/DCS encode/decode

• Dual Band/Dual Receive: (Full Duplex)

• Cross Band Repeat

• TX Power: 5-50 Watts

• Memories: 256

• Antenna Connection: Two SO (UHF)

For the quad-bander, two antenna connections makes a lot more sense.

Given the lessons of the KG-UV920R, I'm not going to hold my breath for this one either.

TYT TH-UV6R

TYT TH-UV6R dual band HT for $49.70 at the 409Shop:

"The TYT TH-UV6R is a mid size dual band radio, about the same size as the Baofeng UV5R, and features a built in high brightness LED flashlight, 2Tone / 5Tone DTMF encoding, and 8Group’s scrambler and repeater compatible frequency offsets and CTCSS PL tones. 

This radio is well supported with accessories and can be programmed via computer using the optional programming cable."

Specifications:

Model	TYT TH-UV6R
Frequency stability	±2.5ppm
Modulation ( wide/narrow)	16KΦF3E/11KΦF3E
Max frequency deviation ( wide/narrow)	<=5KHz/<2 .5khz="" span="">
Spurious radiation	<7uw span="">
Pre-emphasis character	6 dB
Emission current	≤1.6A(5W)
CTCSS / DCS ( wide/narrow)	0.5±0.1kHz/0.4±0.1 kHz
Intermediation sensitivity	1-10mV
Intermediation distortion	<5 span="">
RF Sensitivity	-122dBm(12dB SINAD)
Audio Power	1W
Audio Distortion	<5 span="">
Blocking	≥85dB
Intermediation(wide/narrow)	≥60dB  / ≥55dB
Features:
Dual band	Dual Display / Dual Standby
Frequency Range	136-174Mhz* / 400-470Mhz* (Ham Band Only)
SQL	0-9 grades
Step	2.5k / 5k / 6.25k /…. / 25k
FM radio	25 stations storage
CTCSS/DCS	50CTCSS / 104DCS
Wide/Narrow Band(25kHz/12.5kHz)	√
Shortcut menu operation mode	√
Time-out Timer (TOT)	√
VOX function	1-8 grades VOX selectable
Voice companding	√
DTMF encoding and decoding	√
Backlight brightness setting	√
Scanning function	√
Keypad lock function	√
Signal strength indicator	√
LCD display	√
Battery voltage display function	√
Channel name display and editing functions	√
Busy lockout function	√
Wire clone function	√
Emergency alarm function	√
Low battery alarm	√
Power saving function	√
High/Low TX power selectable	√
Chinese and English voice prompt	√
PC software programmable	√
Monitor function	√
PTT&ANIID	√

PACKAGE CONTAIN
1 x TYT THUV6R VHF 136-174MHZ /400-480MHZ AMATEUR TWO-WAY RADIO
1 x Antenna
1 x Li-ion battery pack
1 x Charger
1 x Belt clip
1 x User´s manual